Comments on: On what I think about the Emergent Church Movement. (an answer to a friend) http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/ Law and Theology Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:06:55 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: flowerfloosey http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-1550 flowerfloosey Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:51:20 +0000 http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-1550 In the past three weeks, God has brought to me what is happening in our church. We raised two kids here and our parents attended too for many years(my 88 year old mom still does). Little by little we see this church "emerging". We heard today that someone was going to speak at our church and they were given a list of words that they could not use..ie..hell, sin etc. In reading as much as we can about this movement, we are amazed at how this crept..shifted upon us. Saddleback is our church's model, we have been totally encouraged to do all these different books in our home study groups and our youth are doing labyrinths! we have also learned that half the elders have "shifted" toward this emergent "trend" too. What do we do? We live in a small town and there aren't many choices. We feel so isolated as not many have come to this knowledge of what is happening. Help! In the past three weeks, God has brought to me what is happening in our church. We raised two kids here and our parents attended too for many years(my 88 year old mom still does). Little by little we see this church “emerging”. We heard today that someone was going to speak at our church and they were given a list of words that they could not use..ie..hell, sin etc. In reading as much as we can about this movement, we are amazed at how this crept..shifted upon us. Saddleback is our church’s model, we have been totally encouraged to do all these different books in our home study groups and our youth are doing labyrinths! we have also learned that half the elders have “shifted” toward this emergent “trend” too. What do we do? We live in a small town and there aren’t many choices. We feel so isolated as not many have come to this knowledge of what is happening. Help!

]]> By: On music in the Church, Aesthetics, and the Worship of God « Christian Theology http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-739 On music in the Church, Aesthetics, and the Worship of God « Christian Theology Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:17:30 +0000 http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-739 [...] http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-ans... [...] [...] http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-ans... [...]

]]> By: Neiswonger http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-738 Neiswonger Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:45:51 +0000 http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-738 Sean, Well at least all of the songs have only three chords, so it's not so taxing on the memory. And most of them have about four lines of lyric so the vagueness is a big plus. Songs that are definitively Christian in some way could offend the non-christian members of the Church. And faddish? Sure. But it's a fad that comes around every generation or so. In the 1930s and 40s we just called them liberals. They weren't big on the veracity of scripture or the resurrection and such but they were big on social action and after church potlucks. I'm really fine with both, I just don't see why I can't keep orthodox Christianity and reserve the right to a nice lunch. The music is always deeper and more full in the generations when the theology is taken seriously and this translates into a vigorous artistic expression. That's why Luther's generation produced Bach and ours produces 'oh what a friend we have in Jesus'. The theological blood that makes for that kind of creative muscle doesn't flow in our veins. An emptiness of head always carries an accompanying emptiness of heart. That's why when well meaning Christians speak of going back to singing the old hymns, because of their magnificence and holy gravity, I understand the sentiment and why they think going backward is a good answer, but we can't forget that hymns were a new idea at the time of the Reformation, and it was the glory of the thinking that served the fires of creation. We still need to write new songs. Every generation keeping that Reformation ideal of speaking to each people the same sacred truths in the culture in which they exist. But if we lose sight of the sacred truths themselves, the form loses its context. Music has meaning only within a hermeneutic of Divine grace and the glory of God. How much more music for worship? And so as we lose the understanding, we eventually lose everything. Beauty has its appeal in relation to the ultimately beautiful and apart from God all things are mediocre. Neiswonger Sean,

Well at least all of the songs have only three chords, so it’s not so taxing on the memory. And most of them have about four lines of lyric so the vagueness is a big plus. Songs that are definitively Christian in some way could offend the non-christian members of the Church. And faddish? Sure. But it’s a fad that comes around every generation or so. In the 1930s and 40s we just called them liberals. They weren’t big on the veracity of scripture or the resurrection and such but they were big on social action and after church potlucks. I’m really fine with both, I just don’t see why I can’t keep orthodox Christianity and reserve the right to a nice lunch.

The music is always deeper and more full in the generations when the theology is taken seriously and this translates into a vigorous artistic expression. That’s why Luther’s generation produced Bach and ours produces ‘oh what a friend we have in Jesus’. The theological blood that makes for that kind of creative muscle doesn’t flow in our veins. An emptiness of head always carries an accompanying emptiness of heart.

That’s why when well meaning Christians speak of going back to singing the old hymns, because of their magnificence and holy gravity, I understand the sentiment and why they think going backward is a good answer, but we can’t forget that hymns were a new idea at the time of the Reformation, and it was the glory of the thinking that served the fires of creation. We still need to write new songs. Every generation keeping that Reformation ideal of speaking to each people the same sacred truths in the culture in which they exist.

But if we lose sight of the sacred truths themselves, the form loses its context. Music has meaning only within a hermeneutic of Divine grace and the glory of God. How much more music for worship? And so as we lose the understanding, we eventually lose everything. Beauty has its appeal in relation to the ultimately beautiful and apart from God all things are mediocre.

Neiswonger

]]> By: Sean http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-734 Sean Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:42:52 +0000 http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-734 I really don't know what to think about the emergent movement. I have difficulty harnessing enough energy, time, and interest to figure out what they are trying to say. My initial impression is, however, faddish. All I know is I get tired of having to learn all new songs every year. I really don’t know what to think about the emergent movement. I have difficulty harnessing enough energy, time, and interest to figure out what they are trying to say. My initial impression is, however, faddish.

All I know is I get tired of having to learn all new songs every year.

]]> By: Chris http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-716 Chris Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:50:25 +0000 http://neiswonger.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/on-what-i-think-about-the-emergent-church-movement-an-answer-to-a-friend/#comment-716 Excellent post! It really helps me to hear from like minded Christians, who are standing firm and remaining faithful to the word of God. My church used to be rock solid but it has given into the postmodern/emergent mood. It is extremely discouraging! To see men who you admired just give up and go along with the flow... it has made me extremely sad. It is so hard to stand firm when everyone around you is being carried away, it can really make you start to doubt yourself. Not to mention that for all their love rhetoric the pomo emergents turn out to be very unloving of anyone who raises concerns about the direction the movement is going. I think its because of all the false antithesis that the emergent books are filled with. They leave no room for fruitful discussion, because they paint every Christian who doesn't go along with them as a hateful modernist vampire Christian who only wants to beat people over the head with propositional truth claims. Anyway.... I just wanted to say thank you for your thoughts. I don't feel quite as alone after reading them. I pray that there is a backlash coming against this spirit of compromise and I pray that it is coming soon! God Bless T Excellent post! It really helps me to hear from like minded Christians, who are standing firm and remaining faithful to the word of God.

My church used to be rock solid but it has given into the postmodern/emergent mood. It is extremely discouraging! To see men who you admired just give up and go along with the flow… it has made me extremely sad. It is so hard to stand firm when everyone around you is being carried away, it can really make you start to doubt yourself. Not to mention that for all their love rhetoric the pomo emergents turn out to be very unloving of anyone who raises concerns about the direction the movement is going. I think its because of all the false antithesis that the emergent books are filled with. They leave no room for fruitful discussion, because they paint every Christian who doesn’t go along with them as a hateful modernist vampire Christian who only wants to beat people over the head with propositional truth claims.

Anyway…. I just wanted to say thank you for your thoughts. I don’t feel quite as alone after reading them. I pray that there is a backlash coming against this spirit of compromise and I pray that it is coming soon!

God Bless

T

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